View source for Skancke and the Isle of Man

This page is created based on a [https://www.geni.com/discussions/153760 debate] in the Geni discussion fora about the relationship (or lack of proof thereof) between the following historical persons:

* [https://www.geni.com/people/Hallstein-Torleivsson/6000000002323786359 Hallstein Torleivsson] (ca 1272 - ca 1345)
* [https://www.geni.com/people/Torlack-Skenck/6000000002903443207 Torlack Skenck]
* [https://www.geni.com/people/Haraldr-Gu%C3%B0r%C3%B8%C3%B0arson-king-of-the-Isles/6000000002903485822 Harald Gudrødson, last Norse king of Man]

The claim being made is that Harald was the father of Torlack, who was the father of Hallstein. The counterclaim is that there isn't enough evidence available to support either of those linkages.

The arguments being cited are:
* Use of the Triskelion (three legs joined at the hip) by both the Skancke family and the kingdom of Man
* Matching dates
* Oral traditions

== Timeline of the Isle of Man ==
Mostly from [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Isle_of_Man#Middle_Ages Wikipedia]. Wikipedia (as of April 18 2016) skips totally Harald Gudredson's rule.

* 1113: Olaf Godredsson rules Man
* 1130s: First bishop appointed
* 1152: End of Olaf's reign
* 1153: Godred Olafsson takes the throne
* 1158: End of Godred's rule
* 1187: Ragnald takes the throne
* 1229: End of Ragnald's rule
* 1249: Harald Gudrødsson ursups the throne (from Harald's geni page)
* 1250: Harald summoned to Norway, and returns with Magnus, who takes over.
* 1252: Magnus Olafsson takes the throne
* 1261: Alexander III negotiates for a takeover
* 1263: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Largs Battle of Largs] (inconclusive)
* 1264: All islands but Mann surrendered to Alexander, Mann under homage
* 1265: End of Magnus' rule (death)
* 1266: Magnus of Norway cedes the islands at the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Perth Treaty of Perth]
* 1267: Alexander III sends an expedition against "the rebels of Mann"
* 1275: Uprising under Gudrødr Magnusson. Ends in the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ronaldsway Battle of Ronaldsway] - Scottish rule established
* 1290: Walter de Huntercombe sent by the English king to take possession of Mann
* 1313: Robert the Bruce conquers Mann
* 1346: England defeats Scotland. Rule becomes confused.

== Timeline of the Skanckes ==
* 1295: Torlack Schenck is mentioned in [http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/regest_vise_tekst.prl?b=1952&s=n&str= Regesta Norvegica II, nr 790]. (Is the sigil here?)
* 1303: Purported date of the letter to Erling Amundsen from which Iver Hirtzholm copied the sigil.
* 1303: Mentioned (DN b.III, no.53, 56,)
* 1326: Hallstein Torleifson is "sysselmann" in Jämtland (cite?) (DN b.IV, no.168)
* 13xx: Nils Hallsteinson loses his farm in a judgment for an old murder (cite?) (1348: DN b.III, no.254, 1345: b. x, no. 50, 51)
* 1397: One-legged sigil used on Ønd Pederson's grave
* 1474: One-legged sigil with feathers used by Ørjan Karlson

== Evidence of the Legged Triskelion ==
=== On the Isle of Man ===
* The [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Isle_of_Man flag of the Isle of Man] features a triskelion; it was adopted in 1932.
* The [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_the_Isle_of_Man Coat of Arms of the Isle of Man] appears in multiple rolls including the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camden_Roll Camden roll] believed to have been created ca 1280.
* The "[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_of_State_(Isle_of_Man) Manx sword]" has the triskelion in its pommel, and has traditionally been connected to Olaf the Black, but analysis of the sword indicates that it's a 15h century design.

=== In the Skancke family ===
The name "Skancke" means "leg" or "shank". Whether it's singular or plural is debatable; in [http://www.ordbogen.com/opslag.php?word=skanke&dict=auto&wcl=7&wci=837bac6d-f01f-4080-bb78-4fca5ca8ebad#ddgr contemporary Danish], it's a plural.

The most commonly seen coat of arms for the Skancke family has a single leg, often wearing armor (as quoted from the Noregian Wikipedia). The examples seen with three legs are:

* [https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iver_Hirtzholm Iver Hirtzholm]'s book of arms (1670ish), claiming as its source a letter from 1303 related to Erling Amundsen. The legs here are bare. (shield #46)

=== Elsewhere ===
* The [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Sicily Flag of Sicily] has a triskelion of bare legs and a gorgon. Pliny the Elder (AD 23-79) mentions this symbol and relates it to the shape of the island. (Source: English Wikipedia)
* Jean "Baudrain" de La Heuze
* Guillaume Montagu, Comte de Salisbury

== Evidence of traditions ==
"On Frøsøn in Jämtland from where the Skankes ruled the community, there is made a "historical trail" for pupils telling the story and pointing at the possible link to Isle of Man. This is part of basic education in primary school in Østersund." (Quote from Stein Aage Sørvig)

The Skanke foundation has an [http://www.skankeforeningen.no/index.php/artikler/41-skanker-og-barfo-e-der-forbindelsen-mellom-dem unsigned article] repeating the story.

== Authorities cited ==

=== G. V. C (Barney) Young (1921-2006) ===
George Vaughan Chichester Young (1921-2006) was born in Londonderry, educated in law in Belfast, served in the Royal Navy, qualified as a solicitor in 1946, and has worked in the Isle of Man in various legal posts since 1973. (Source: introduction to "[https://books.google.se/books?id=SkeKjJC4GeoC&dq=barney+young+isle+of+man&hl=no&source=gbs_navlinks_s From the Vikings to the Reformation: A Chronicle of the Faroe Islands up to 1538]" - Google Books), [http://www.theguardian.com/news/2005/sep/19/obituaries.readersobituaries obituary])

Quote from "Young, G.V.C.: A Brief History of the Isle of Man, The Mansk-Svenska Publishing Co. Ltd., Peel, Isle of Man, 2001: p. 12":

<cite>The rebellion {of 1275} was, however, abortive and resulted in some members of the royal family emigrating to Norway, where their descendants are still to be found in the Norwegian family of Skankes, the Swedish family of Skunck(e)s and the Danish family of Barfods. The emigrants took with them as their Arms "the three legs", which had been the Royal Arms of the Sudreyan Kings since about the middle of the thirteenth century. These Arms (a modification of the ancient Indo-Germanic sun symbol) were simplified in Norway and Sweden to one leg and in Denmark to three bare feet, and later to one bare foot</cite>

This has been cited by the Skanke Association.

=== P. A. Munch (1810-1863) ===
[https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Andreas_Munch Wikipedia (Norwegian)]

=== Nils Gabriel Ahnlund (1889-1957) ===
[https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils_Ahnlund Biography] (Swedish Wikipedia)

In "Jämtland og Härjedalens historia", he wrote that Hallsteins sigill was similar to both Isle of Man and Sicily. (Quoted by Remi)

=== Roger de Robelin ===
Rejects the relationship between the Skanckes and the Isle of Man on pages 10, 12 and 384 in his book about the Skanke family.

[http://old.genealogi.no/Genealogen/Artikler/skanke_aetten.htm A review of his "Skanke-ätten" (1995)] in genealogi.no quotes him as saying that "as far as he has had time to research this, he has not found sources that can document a connection between the Skankes of Jämtland and the old royal house of the Isle of Man".

=== Lars Løberg (born 1960) ===
Genealogist and diplomat. Chair of the Norwegian Genealogical Society (NSF) 1999-2007. [http://www.genealogi.no/mediawiki/index.php/Lars_L%C3%B8berg Biography]

In a [http://www.genealogi.no/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=175 discussion on NSF-forum] (in English), he says that the Man theory is "not genealogically sustainable", and says "This isn't even fanciful speculations. It is science fiction."

== Popular sources ==
These are non-authoritative; the interesting part is where they claim to have information from.

* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skanke_(noble_family) Wikipedia (English)]
* [https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skanke Wikipedia (Norwegian)]
* [http://www.genealogi.no/mediawiki/index.php/Skanke_(slekt) Genealogi.no (Wiki, Norwegian]