Difference between revisions of "Descent from Ragnvald Mørejarl"

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(Eiliv Torsteinsson)
(Eiliv Torsteinsson: Sorting out Dag's parentage)
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== Eiliv Torsteinsson ==
 
== Eiliv Torsteinsson ==
Two of his sons have male heirs listed, and some descendants that go to generation 15:
+
One of his sons had male heirs listed, and some descendants that go to generation 15:
* Orm Eilivson, Opplandsjarl, three surviving branches that diverge early (but 2 of them are confused; needs recheck)
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* Orm Eilivson, Opplandsjarl, four surviving branches that diverge early:
** [https://www.geni.com/people/Nils-H%C3%A5vardsson/6000000007980728775 Nils Håvardsson] - 2 sons, no male grandchildren
+
** [https://www.geni.com/people/Olaf-Kamp/6000000016073244106 Olaf Johnsson Kamp]
** [https://www.geni.com/people/Arne-K%C3%A5reson-Vidrheim/6000000007223606324 Arne Kåresson Vidreim] (but going up from this profile gives him as a descendant of Dag - he's the son of Kåre, listed below. Needs check!)
+
** [https://www.geni.com/people/H%C3%A5vard-Torgilsen-Veidenes/6000000007508309493 Håvard Torgilsen Veidenes]
** [https://www.geni.com/people/Ole-Hvitstein/6000000004066243211 Ole Iversen Hvitstein] (son of Ivar, listed below)
+
** [https://www.geni.com/people/K%C3%A5re-Erlendson-Vidrheim/6000000007345271587 Kåre Erlendsson Vidrheim]
 +
** [https://www.geni.com/people/Ivar-Hvitstein/6000000004066243218 Ivar Ivesen Hvitstein]
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** [https://www.geni.com/people/Ole-Hvitstein/6000000004066243211 Ole Iversen Hvitstein]
 +
 
 +
His great grandson Dag was for a while listed as his son, and carries responsibility for the Hvitstein and Vidreim branches:
 
* Dag Eilivson Bratsberg, two surviving branches, going through the Kane family:
 
* Dag Eilivson Bratsberg, two surviving branches, going through the Kane family:
 
** [https://www.geni.com/people/Ivar-Hvitstein/6000000004066243218 Ivar Hvitstein]
 
** [https://www.geni.com/people/Ivar-Hvitstein/6000000004066243218 Ivar Hvitstein]
 
** [https://www.geni.com/people/K%C3%A5re-Erlendson-Vidrheim/6000000007345271587 Kåre Erlendson Vidrheim]
 
** [https://www.geni.com/people/K%C3%A5re-Erlendson-Vidrheim/6000000007345271587 Kåre Erlendson Vidrheim]
 +
 +
(Dag Eilivson had two candidate fathers: [https://www.geni.com/people/Eiliv/6000000004533374875 Eiliv Ormsson] born ca 1050 and undocumented, and [https://www.geni.com/people/Eiliv-Torsteinsson-jarl/6000000010401738668 Eiliv Torsteinsson]. One is the grandfather of the other. The sources linked in his profile give no references for his father, and the chronology looks wrong, so I've made him the great grandson of Eiliv Torsteinsson rather than his son.)
  
 
== Ivar Iversen Hvitstein ==
 
== Ivar Iversen Hvitstein ==

Revision as of 13:22, 15 November 2016

Disclaimer: Genealogy-wise, this is WILD SPECULATION. Proof of paternity through 25 generations, right through the middle ages, is so hard to document that it's completely foolish to attach credibility to it.

This is a page of HYPOTHESIZING - "if what we speculate is all true, is there some way we could devise a test that would confirm the hypothesis - or deny it if it is false?"


Contents

Background

Ragnvald Mørejarl, Harald Hårfagre's henchman, is at an interesting juncture in the genealogical tree.

His father-line reaches back to Fornjot, the ancient giant of Finland.

The man Snorre claims as his son, Ganger-Rolf, called Rollo in Normadie, is a founding father of lots of European dynasties - but his descent is disputed; some claim he was a Dane. The Explicio foundation has taken on an effort to DNA-test some of his descendants.

This page looks at the other side: What possible male-line descendants do we have who were NOT descendants of Ganger-Rolf?

Tooling

HistoryLink's "descendant chart" with Y-chromosome only can give us 15 generations a shot. Some samples:

Then it's just a matter of picking out the branches of the star that reach the furthest and explore them further.

A weakness of this tool is that conflicts are not shown. The lines identified need to be walked manually to check for conflicts, which may lead to different results when walking the line up from when we walk the line down. (Of course, this is only the first step in checking the trace against sources!)

Ragnvald's other sons

Brothers of Ganger-Rolf:

  • Ivar (Snorre) - no known children
  • Tore Teiande (Snorre) - 154 male descendants in the first 15 generations. All living descendants go through Eiliv Torsteinsson (985-1050).
  • Gutum (known only from Dudo of Saint-Quentin) - since he's on the "Rollo" side of documentation, not explored here.

Half-brothers:

  • Hallad - one listed son, he has no male descendants.
  • Turf-Einar - 34 male descendants, last one died around 1131 (jarls of Orkney)
  • Hrollaug - 3 sons, 1 of which is listed with a male descendant, but no 3rd generation. This may be worth exploring further - Landnamabok should have more to say about this line.

Thus it seems that according to what we now have on Geni, a living male line has to go through Tore Teiande and Eiliv Torsteinsson.

Eiliv Torsteinsson

One of his sons had male heirs listed, and some descendants that go to generation 15:

His great grandson Dag was for a while listed as his son, and carries responsibility for the Hvitstein and Vidreim branches:

(Dag Eilivson had two candidate fathers: Eiliv Ormsson born ca 1050 and undocumented, and Eiliv Torsteinsson. One is the grandfather of the other. The sources linked in his profile give no references for his father, and the chronology looks wrong, so I've made him the great grandson of Eiliv Torsteinsson rather than his son.)

Ivar Iversen Hvitstein

Undocumented, birth calculated to be between 1445 and 1505.

204 male descendants, many of them living.

This person is also completely empty of sources, which is not a good sign.

Conclusion

If Ragnvald Mørejarl has male descendants that are listed on Geni, and if all the lines are correct, an Y-DNA test of any male-line descendant of Ivar Iversen Hvitstein should give the answer to the question of "what was Ragnvald Mørejarl's haplogroup".

If there's a single error in the thousand-year span between Ragnvald and Ivar, a test will prove nothing.

If we want to find other male-line descendants of Ragnvald, we need more evidence.

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